LHP, RHP, and that vast middle ground. NO TROLLS.

Questions and Answers for where to begin on the Darker Spiritual Paths.

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User5191
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I'll begin by saying that when I first started my journey I was clearly, completely, RHP.

Along the way, I found myself naturally inquisitive. I joined some orders of occult knowledge and have studied their teachings (and continue to learn). Then some stuff happened that more or less amounts to the corruption of man, so to speak. And, my curiosity piqued.

Then some other stuff happened that should be left for the adult section and I started considering spirit keeping.

...then I started almost exclusively WA before learning about Akelta and S&S. TBH, I was quite reluctant and intimidated the first time I reached out to her. Boy I'm glad I did!

Now I have demon companions and a whole host of other entities that range from "white" to dark gray. I'm learning more each day and find myself seeking the guidance and assistance from both polarities of our spiritual journey.

It makes me wonder though: can someone walk both paths? And, admittedly this may more be a theological question where there isn't a true answer (after all, I do believe the bible said a man can't serve two masters; a point that I am sure would be hotly debated by about 70% of the worlds population). But I wonder, do many on the LHP find themselves actually being in in the middle? Occasionally relying on the RHP too?

I believe it's fair to say that almost all of society fits into the middle in some way. Humans are gray by nature and our intentions aren't continually pure from either perspective. Many might lean to the RHP, but I strongly doubt that most are exclusively on it.

Which brings me back to me (I'm a self-centered bastard, aren't I?) - in my path, there will be people on both sides that say I'm confused, or lost, because I walk a middle ground and have friends on both sides. Those people will say I'm deceived and can't have both angelic and demonic friends. They'll continue to propagate a world of polar opposites, ignoring their own true nature while casting their paradigm and world view on others (perhaps ignorant to their own reality). And then there is the judgement. Lol 'Nuff said. I suppose that this, and societal norms (esp as it relates to my job) are why I don't openly discuss this as a lifestyle and, well, faith I suppose. It colors my world view. So, some may say I'm lost or confused. Some might say I'm deciding myself. I say that I'm being honest with myself and my true intentions. That, so far anyway, I can, and do, have both angelic and demonic companions. And they can play well together. And I can develop my senses. And there isn't anything wrong with it. I believe this is my reality.

I'm curious though, from your perspectives, is a middle path a tenable position? Does it last long term? I'm interested to learn your thoughts in an academic (not personal) "debate."
*note, I'm not bating you into an argument, just a discussion where we may exchange world views and faith-based views (not necessarily dogmatic religion) perhaps as a means to better understand each other's position and our common grounds. Perhaps to reassure one another. But always in the lens of exchanging ideas and knowledge and fostering self growth and understanding.

So, back to you, is the middle a tenable position, or is it a no-mans land wherein one may only stand before being struck down by mortar? In your experience, aren't most of us somewhere in the middle? Perhaps vacillating between the light and dark? Curious for your take!
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"Verily I say unto thee, thou shalt gaze upon my field of fucks, and ye shall see that it is barren." -Bathosias

"Allow me to quote myself" -Bathosias
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Ymirson
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I feel your path is as valid as any. I would not let labels bar you. Be a pioneer and let the critics be damned. They have not experienced the world from your eyes, learned your lessons, or necessarily discovered what is true to you. For me, we are all on the same mountain with a multitude of paths. Many keep going down before they can go up and up does not necessarily mean white light or darkness, it is just you. Your true self, HGA, or higher self is what we seek and eventually find. Hope I am not being too esoteric. Yes many of us revel in the dark while other seek the light, but we cannot say it is wrong for another, or even try to put them in a box so to speak. Who wants that anyway. Then if you cannot find the book that resonates your path or your faith, then write one. Be a guide to others.

Just some open thoughts. We all need balance in all things. Maybe there is something to be said about walking in the gray.
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User5191
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Thanks! And I completely agree with what you're saying. IMO, there is no true one way to divinity. The key is to improve yourself and seek that divinity. Being in the gray allows you to continually explore all paths, light and dark, for lack of a better label.

I don't mean this to say that there aren't absolutes. I believe in absolutes. In the law, it's the concept of mallum en se, vs malum prohitum (my Latin spelling may be off); the central concept though is that The former are things that are universally wrong: murder, rape, etc. mostly, they're crimes against others. And that's the absolute. I don't believe any path to devinity can support these concepts - at least in my moral code and within the laws of man. The later, however, are crimes only because society deems them so. Much more of a gray area and varies based on culture,
Location, time, etc.

I like your concept of finding your way and assisting others. I'll be the Sherpa on the mountain! Ha. Let's just pray there isn't any snow!
"Verily I say unto thee, thou shalt gaze upon my field of fucks, and ye shall see that it is barren." -Bathosias

"Allow me to quote myself" -Bathosias
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User5191
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Edit: or rather, a blizzard. We all saw what was in the mountains of middle earth! Hahaha
"Verily I say unto thee, thou shalt gaze upon my field of fucks, and ye shall see that it is barren." -Bathosias

"Allow me to quote myself" -Bathosias
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User5191
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Second edit: because I can't find the edit button. I'll claim stupidity. I definitely think, for me anyway, it's more of a libertarian approach to seeking divinity. Thomas Jefferson would probably approve. Haha. You're right though, it really is about seeking divinity in the way that works for the individual.
"Verily I say unto thee, thou shalt gaze upon my field of fucks, and ye shall see that it is barren." -Bathosias

"Allow me to quote myself" -Bathosias
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DoubleD
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@Ck

I believe, yes you can walk both paths but don't feel it can be completely equal, which is fine. It's like being bisexual, you may like both okay but one of them really gets you turned on. It almost breaks my heart that you felt this could insight a fight or trolls, this is what is wrong with people anymore, can't say anything without fear of retribution.

Good for you for exploring both. I started out fairly right path but honestly not knowing what left path even meant, I worked some hoodoo and some of the saints and now that I work primarily left hand I certainly don't feel like I cheated on my guys, they understand that I follow what works for each situation. Another plus for you working both is your ability to help people spiritually when they are primarily RHP monotheists, you will have an open mind and similar perspective that I think is important.

I agree with Y here, do what feels right for you, find that balance and learn both. I personally feel all magicians should learn both and know both to be complete, many things in life aren't left or right in nature, they just are, and if you can get through those without worrying about the L and R then you are better off than most.

Keep sharing and keep posting, it's great learning more about you
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User5191
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@ DD first, let me thank you so much for your insight and response!
DoubleD wrote:@Ck

I believe, yes you can walk both paths but don't feel it can be completely equal, which is fine. It's like being bisexual, you may like both okay but one of them really gets you turned on. It almost breaks my heart that you felt this could insight a fight or trolls, this is what is wrong with people anymore, can't say anything without fear of retribution.

I completely agree. It's sad that we have to live in fear of what is posted and censor and caution ourselves in what essentially amounts to an academic style discussion/debate. But, people are people. And if social media has taught us anything, it's that people will exploit opinions to prop up their own, sometimes ignorant or misguided opinions. This is a larger debate concerning modern Western liberalism that implicates various aspects of the 1st amendment (in a larger, theoretical context) of freedom of religion, association, and speech (for our first amendment American scholars out there). But, even idiots are entitled to their opinion, and it may speak to where they're at on their path (or if they're even trying). Fortunately, this is generally an open minded group and discourse is encouraged. Nonetheless, it seems prudent to approach with an abundance of caution with touchy subjects and to highlight the possibility of trolling for the mods. But, I digress - this may be a topic for a future board posting!

Good for you for exploring both. I started out fairly right path but honestly not knowing what left path even meant, I worked some hoodoo and some of the saints and now that I work primarily left hand I certainly don't feel like I cheated on my guys, they understand that I follow what works for each situation. Another plus for you working both is your ability to help people spiritually when they are primarily RHP monotheists, you will have an open mind and similar perspective that I think is important.

Thank you. I agree here as well. While I wouldn't consider myself a magician, per se, it's definitely helpful to understand where others are coming from not only to understand them, but to potentially help others in future endeavors. :)

I agree with Y here, do what feels right for you, find that balance and learn both. I personally feel all magicians should learn both and know both to be complete, many things in life aren't left or right in nature, they just are, and if you can get through those without worrying about the L and R then you are better off than most.

Keep sharing and keep posting, it's great learning more about you
again, thank you so much. I am enjoying learning more about and from each of you. Hopefully my contributions will aide others in some way too as we all progress on our paths. I know I'm learning a ton from being here with you all!!
"Verily I say unto thee, thou shalt gaze upon my field of fucks, and ye shall see that it is barren." -Bathosias

"Allow me to quote myself" -Bathosias
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DoubleD
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OMG someone who feels how i do

I completely agree. It's sad that we have to live in fear of what is posted and censor and caution ourselves in what essentially amounts to an academic style discussion/debate. But, people are people. And if social media has taught us anything, it's that people will exploit opinions to prop up their own, sometimes ignorant or misguided opinions. This is a larger debate concerning modern Western liberalism that implicates various aspects of the 1st amendment (in a larger, theoretical context) of freedom of religion, association, and speech (for our first amendment American scholars out there). But, even idiots are entitled to their opinion, and it may speak to where they're at on their path (or if they're even trying). Fortunately, this is generally an open minded group and discourse is encouraged. Nonetheless, it seems prudent to approach with an abundance of caution with touchy subjects and to highlight the possibility of trolling for the mods. But, I digress - this may be a topic for a future board posting!

You are so very right on all of this and I call it keyboard courage. Liberals in our country are working to shut down free speech and label it as hate speech because it differs from their own views. When in fact they have they same view of those that are different from them. Makes me crazy.. but that's a huge topic ripe for battles isn't it.

It sounds like you are on a very interesting path that is very enlightening. I am very excited for you and anxious to learn more about what you learn...
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What a fascinating and incredible topic! Though ok it did make me sad to, the reminder that it was not trolling, you are right, censorship and ... LOL omg I wrote censorshit.. that would have worked too.... anyway... censorship and oppression of speech are becoming rampant. Instead of actual healthy debate where people of different views come together and share those views it becomes a massacre of everyone trying to make everyone agree with them and that their philosophy is the only one that is right.

I have noticed actually all the arguments are the same... I'm right, no I'm right, well you need to quote sources, here are my sources! those sources are invalid! I'm right, no I'm right... They really are all the same and actual discussion and exploration of knowledge is lost. It is sad really. I am glad though we can all discuss and converse here and just explore various ideas.

It is sad that instead of the exploration of ideas and expanding what we know based on the experiences of others that we end up in a situation where nothing is good enough to people but ultimate conformity and agreeing with their dogma. It seems that people get into this place where only they are right and everyone else is wrong and no debate of discussion is good enough and they get to the point where even suggesting a different view is met with name calling.

That begin said.. Spiritual paths... really I think they are vast and diverse as we are. The backgrounds and energies that we come from. Even my path really there is noting written that matches where my own exploration has taken me. That I think is really part of the journey! finding the path that is right for you. How I see it, this world and this spiritual world is big enough for all philosophies, the spectrum of vast and we all need to find our place and our beliefs on it. What resonates with our core and how to find our balance. If you are LHP Beautiful! If you are RHP Beautiful! If you walk down the middle BEAUTIFUL. Really I don't see a problem with the path you follow so long as it resonates with your heart and you find your balance. There might be things I disagree with, or things that from my experience are not the same but that doesn't mean people are wrong, actually I think the combining of seemingly opposing ideals give the opportunity for grow and expansion.
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User5191
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Akelta wrote:What a fascinating and incredible topic! Though ok it did make me sad to, the reminder that it was not trolling, you are right, censorship and ... LOL omg I wrote censorshit.. that would have worked too.... anyway... censorship and oppression of speech are becoming rampant. Instead of actual healthy debate where people of different views come together and share those views it becomes a massacre of everyone trying to make everyone agree with them and that their philosophy is the only one that is right.

I have noticed actually all the arguments are the same... I'm right, no I'm right, well you need to quote sources, here are my sources! those sources are invalid! I'm right, no I'm right... They really are all the same and actual discussion and exploration of knowledge is lost. It is sad really. I am glad though we can all discuss and converse here and just explore various ideas.

It is sad that instead of the exploration of ideas and expanding what we know based on the experiences of others that we end up in a situation where nothing is good enough to people but ultimate conformity and agreeing with their dogma. It seems that people get into this place where only they are right and everyone else is wrong and no debate of discussion is good enough and they get to the point where even suggesting a different view is met with name calling.

Alelta (and DoubleD), I couldn't agree more. We are witnessing the erosion of our liberties due to fear we'll hurt someone's feelings. It's no longer okay to respectfully disagree. It's no longer okay to have an opinion that differs from the current, modern trend. Doing so, at best, labels you an outcast. At worst, much more hateful labels may apply (many times, undeservingly). To me, it's a three-fold issue. At least, it is as I think about this without much sleep. That is, 1. People are comfortable pushing the envelope only as long as it fits their perceived agenda, 2. People will remain intolerant of others opinions that differ from theirs (after all, a counter opinion is antiquated), and 3. People have become too damned sensitive and entitled. 1-2 aren't ground shattering. We've already handled it pretty well I think. The first point... People no longer want their beliefs challenged (not sure they ever did); but now there is an acceptable way to do it... Challenge authority, but only in certain regards. Damn the consequences or practical implications of things, we want change and now... But, only if it advances my agenda. The second point is as you say Akelta, they just bash in a cycle. The biggest piece is perhaps the third point. How have we got to a point that a disagreement is tantamount to a personal attack? And how has the individual got to a point where they couldn't handle it if they did? How weak,are you if you can't have someone challenge your views without running away and crying? To me, at least, this is a symptom of the "Helicopter parent culture": let's foam pad the world so nobody gets hurt, give all the kids a trophy and continually tell them how great they are (instead of allowing room for healthy improvement and growth and teaching kids that sometimes you lose, learn to deal with it), and ignore the real problems in the world. Oh, and I guess a fourth element too, as it relates to actual trolling: some people just want to troll and cause problems! Whatevs! :)

That begin said.. Spiritual paths... really I think they are vast and diverse as we are. The backgrounds and energies that we come from. Even my path really there is noting written that matches where my own exploration has taken me. That I think is really part of the journey! finding the path that is right for you. How I see it, this world and this spiritual world is big enough for all philosophies, the spectrum of vast and we all need to find our place and our beliefs on it. What resonates with our core and how to find our balance. If you are LHP Beautiful! If you are RHP Beautiful! If you walk down the middle BEAUTIFUL. Really I don't see a problem with the path you follow so long as it resonates with your heart and you find your balance. There might be things I disagree with, or things that from my experience are not the same but that doesn't mean people are wrong, actually I think the combining of seemingly opposing ideals give the opportunity for grow and expansion.
I agree too. There are many paths. We all are on our own unique journey. Damn, though, that might be a pretty isolated, lonely, and desolate road if we're doing it all alone! Hopefully Queen A will keep me warm at night! Hahaha but, I think everyone who has chimed in up to this point is right- follow the path seeking divinity however your heart leads.
"Verily I say unto thee, thou shalt gaze upon my field of fucks, and ye shall see that it is barren." -Bathosias

"Allow me to quote myself" -Bathosias
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